Überarbeitung der Wortliste

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Di Mär 06 2012 13:34

For ideas and directions regarding collaborative dictionaries and the need for a central repository, it could perhaps be interesting to have a look at the WeSay project (http://www.wesay.org).
It looks just like what I had in mind. Of course, we are now commited to SQL, but I like their system of rights:
A brief description of Roles:
- Observer (a.k.a. Reporter): can receive dictionary data but cannot send in edits; can view the project's web and wiki content but cannot edit; can create issues and add notes to them.
- Contributor: can send and receive all kinds of dictionary data; can create and edit the project's web and wiki content; can submit and fully edit issues.
- Manager: can do all of the above; can add/remove other members; can manage the wiki; can move/delete issues.
- LanguageDepotProgrammer: can do most of the things an Observer can do.
I agree, I think that we should!
Yes, but I should say that I've postponed all changes until we find a centralized database management, so that both the dictionary and the wordlists on the site use the same one - otherwise it'll be a nightmare to synchronize.
You can watch it on YouTube here
http://youtu.be/mvKlrDZvKwM
What the hell is that on 0:52? I don't remember Tolkien writing that. :biggrin:

(Also, let's just stick to English in this thread.)

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Lúthien Meliel
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Beitrag von Lúthien Meliel » Di Mär 06 2012 15:29

Roman hat geschrieben:
For ideas and directions regarding collaborative dictionaries and the need for a central repository, it could perhaps be interesting to have a look at the WeSay project (http://www.wesay.org).
It looks just like what I had in mind. Of course, we are now commited to SQL, but I like their system of rights:
(...)
Hey, that is interesting.

re. SQL - the advantage of SQL is that it is very easy to go from relational data to hierarchical (like XML or TEI) but a damn load of work to go the other way.

Roman hat geschrieben:
I agree, I think that we should!
Yes, but I should say that I've postponed all changes until we find a centralized database management, so that both the dictionary and the wordlists on the site use the same one - otherwise it'll be a nightmare to synchronize.
Indeed :)

Roman hat geschrieben:What the hell is that on 0:52? I don't remember Tolkien writing that. :biggrin:
As for the German phrases: I derive a significant part of my job satisfaction from creating silly test data. In this case it's a mishmash of vaguely remembered dubbed voices on the German TV, some Python fragments and such :)
It's very effective against acute cases of Framework overdosing.

But no worries, they'll not appear in the final version. Actually, they are gone already because the original functionality is almost restored.

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Avorninnas
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Beitrag von Avorninnas » Di Mär 06 2012 17:56

Lúthien Meliel hat geschrieben: Actually, they are gone already...
What a shame! I liked them. :biggrin:

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Lúthien Meliel
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Beitrag von Lúthien Meliel » Di Mär 06 2012 19:38

Well, I guess i could add a special function that displays them :)

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Lúthien Meliel
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Beitrag von Lúthien Meliel » Mi Mär 07 2012 1:04

- Jim! Was ist ja den dass mit die Pferde?
- Jack! Also! Bist du einen richtigen Cowboy, oder ein Ost-Küste-Schwesterlein?
- Pass doch mal auf die Nase hinein Jim! Ich hab' einen Colt, you know!
- (alle) Hahahahahaha! *pang* *paf* *paauuw* *pyoooiii*
- Kein Quatsch jetzt, jungs! Jetzt auf 'm weg zu Kentucky! Yihaa!!
* title music*


http://youtu.be/QN8yhPgGQBw

- populating the three search lists from DB works
- retrieving translation of clicked English entry works
- displaying translation data partly works - since the display component is a kind of HTML browser I had to rework the text styles to CSS attributes, and whitespaces are not rendered outside of sentences. So those should be made into those zonky   - things, I'll get to that. I'm also not wholly satisfied with the fonts and colours as it is now, but that's easily modified
- displaying the other translations does not yet work. But that's merely copy-paste work, tomorrow.

PS - I wondered about that translation for "seeing-stone" .. I thought that that was _palantir_, not _gwachaedir_ ?
PS too toodeloo :)

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Lúthien Meliel
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Beitrag von Lúthien Meliel » Mi Mär 07 2012 23:46

the original functions have now all been restored.
- all tabs are working
- fixed the whitespace issue in the translations display
- tweaked the fonts a bit to make them appear more balanced
- made the row height of the search list smaller

If anyone wants to test this version let me know. I still have to figure out how to create a runnable jar file, but that shouldn't be to hard.

In order to run the application you will first need to download the JavaFX2 runtime, which can be obtained for free from the Oracle website at
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ ... index.html (windows version)

To my surprise there seems to be a Linux developer preview version now as well. OSX and Linux developer preview versions can be obtained here: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ ... 29449.html

Installation instructions for installing the environments are also on those pages. It's not difficult.
I'll mention it here when I have the application in a form that can be downloaded (probably tomorrow).

Video of the app http://youtu.be/Z-03Kcabjk0

Toodeloo :)

Ailinel
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Beitrag von Ailinel » Di Mai 01 2012 10:34

Much to my surprise I found a link to the new dictionary "Parf Edhellen" here: http://www.councilofelrond.com/forum/?m ... &t=34094.0

I am convinced that members of Mellyn Lammath will be just as much interested in seeing the published beta version: http://www.elfdict.com as members of the "lovely" site of CoE.

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Eirien
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Beitrag von Eirien » Mi Jun 20 2012 23:10

Wortliste hat geschrieben:brass s Weißglut; s Zorn (Ety/351)
Das sehe ich gerade zum ersten Mal bewusst, stand das da immer schon? Ist die Bedeutung 'Zorn' irgendwo belegt, auch wenn ich's grad' nicht finde, oder ist das in Assoziation zu 'Weißglut' entstanden?
Im ersteren Fall gehört das, in Verbindung mit dem westfälischen (oder doch eher rheinischen?) Ausdruck 'Brass/Brast' = 'Kummer, Ärger' ('einen Brass haben', 'im Brass sein') dann nämlich in den "Zufälle"-Thread.

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » So Dez 16 2012 19:38

Okay, for the record:

- I've removed the gloss "Zorn" from brass. Now it's just:

Weißglut brass s. (farb.) ♦ Ety/351

- I've corrected the entries for morn: It is attested as 'night' in UT and only as a prefix in WJ, hence it reads now:

dunkel morn <myrn> adj. (farb.) ♦ Ety/373, Letters/382, Letters/427, WR/113, PE/17:31
düster morn <myrn> adj. (farb.) ♦ Ety/373, Letters/382, Letters/427, WR/113, PE/17:31
schwarz morn<myrn> adj. (farb.) ♦ Ety/373, Letters/382, Letters/427, WR/113, PE/17:31
Nacht morn s. ♦ UT/65
schwarz- morn- präf. (farb.) ♦ WJ/362, PE/17:31,35,101,125

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Di Dez 18 2012 14:02

For the word search on the main site, I've added the capability to use quotation marks to indicate exact matches, so that you can look up "Elb", for example, and don't get distracted by the Elbenvolk matches and the like. Tell me if you notice any bugs with that.

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Do Jan 24 2013 23:44

Another technical update:

Special case mutation in the wordlists is now indicated by a superscript n, m, ŋ before the word rather than a small comment. For instance:
<sup>n</sup>dúnadan <<sup>n</sup>dúnedain> s Númenórer; s Westmensch (LotR/I:XII, WJ/378, S/390, PE/17:16,18,32).
This required the splitting of some entries:
barad <beraid> s Festung; s Turm (Ety/351, S/428, LotR/B, PE/17:22,65-66,85).
<sup>m</sup>barad adj verdammt (Ety/372).

Furthermore, the wordlists are also made available in pdf format and linked on the main page:
http://www.sindarin.de/sindarin_sd.pdf
http://www.sindarin.de/sindarin_ds.pdf

Please check it out and let me know whether there are any errors or if you want the layout to be different.

EDIT: And already the new notation has made me aware of a mistake: dúnelt, dúnel, dúnellon, dúneglon, dúnelleth, Dúneglarim, Dúneglir, Dúnedhellim should all be nd-Mutations, of course - now corrected.

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » So Feb 03 2013 17:29

Recently, I came across jQuery and its plugin tablesort which makes dynamically sortable tables and thought that it would be perfect for us.
Hence I present to you hereby the dynamic wordlists. You can click on a column you wish to sort the list by and also type stuff into the fields to get all words of a particular shape or within a particular source, and so on.

Again, feel free to tell me any formatting preferences for it.

Other changes:
- rhúnedain was in a wrong column; now corrected
- I have added the words for 'dwarves' from WJ:209 which were missing from the lists: Nyrn, Nauglath, Nauglir, Nauglar, Gonnhirrim as well as the additional reference for Naugrim, Neweg, Nornwaith (try typing "WJ/209" into the reference column of the dynamic wordlists to see them all). That's a lot of dwarves.

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Sa Mär 09 2013 13:24

Me again… I have now added the less ambiguous words from VT50 to the wordlists. Type "VT/50" into the "Quellen" box of the dynamic wordlist to see them all.

The entries ar and a were split - these are different conceptions, after all; and ar only seems to be attested so far in Aragorn's letter, Cúarthol (Silm) and VT50:18, not counting earlier Noldorin.

The words not included are:
- #ephola-: too uncertain a meaning
- os: is it really *'from' (od is by analogy to ed, why the s here?) or maybe something simiar to 'about, concerning', as attested o(h) < OS-?
- #cem (?#hem): too uncertain a meaning
- en (II): passivizer along with 3rd person verb form?
- en (IV): Added additional reference to genitive en. But perhaps it means here 'also, as well'?
- ir: plural article or pre-vocalic article?
- thor: isolated future copula (same as anglenna-tha-?), something along the lines of EN tha- 'to make, cause to be' (PE13:153) or the adjective *'hidden, fenced, closed'?
- den: *'silent', *'against' or something else entirely?

Then there is a bunch of pronouns for the 3rd person: sg. eth, pl. ith, est, ent; and is, pl. idi, idir, but it's unclear to me whether they are differentiated by animacy. A publishing of the full tables should bring some PQ/CE context, until then I don't know how to gloss them. At least ed seems to be attested as inanimate 'it' (and direct object) on the wrapper.
Zuletzt geändert von Roman am Mo Mär 11 2013 22:17, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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Lothenon
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Beitrag von Lothenon » Sa Mär 09 2013 15:21

I'm curious... eithro, ero, eno is the source about words that have a final vowel, or is this just coincidence?

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Mo Mär 11 2013 2:51

Apparently it's an adverbial ending, #-ro in the former case, #-o in the latter two.
Quenya had -o, ando for a long time as the normal adverb ending before its replacement by -ve, andave. In Sindarin, we otherwise also have athra 'to and fro' with a note that many Sindarin adverbs end in -ra (PE17:14).

Carl Hostetter also points out G. athru 'secondly, once more, again' (GL:20). Looking through the GL, I further find nodro 'farther on, further forward, later, again (only of place)' (from the preposition nod (GL:61)) and haidra 'timely, punctual, in good time' (specifically pointed out as an adverb). Not sure what the reason behind the variation of the final vowel is, but note that Goldogrin commonly has adjectival -ra with a final vowel and generally preserves vowels more often.

In any case, the final vowel might be explained as a cognate to Q. -ve, be it from *BE- or from *WE-, via *erābē/*erāwē > *eraw > ero. But the interesting question would be whether it's productive or not, i.e. whether one would have to say *baino for 'beautifully' and the like. The note on -ra, at least, would imply that it is a commonly found ending, but not that it's an obligatory or usual one.

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