valentine's day translation

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Tyrhael
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valentine's day translation

Beitrag von Tyrhael » Do Feb 14 2008 2:57

Hello again! Another post by Tyrhael in English ...

Someone asked me to do a translation in secret for Valentine's Day, and I finished my work but have a few rough spots / questions I need other opinions on. He wants it urgently by tomorrow, so I have a few questions before I send him the translation:

The requested translation was this:
For my beautiful elven angel,
May you always be as happy as you've made me over the time we've known each other.
I am forever yours and wherever our paths may take us,
my heart shall always reside in you.
I love you.
-----------

I translated that as such:

For my beautiful elven angel,
Vanima máyanyan (maianyan) *eldávëa,
For my beautiful elvish Maia,

May you always be as happy as you've made me over the time we've known each other.
Nai illumë nauvatyë alassëa ve anáyen (anaien) [mí *lúmesta yassë *isintiengwë wet (or h[y]é)?]
May it be you shall always be (as) joyous as I have been within the time in which we two have known the two of us (or "the other)
Alternatively: Nai illumë samutyë úve alassëo ve ya ánietyen [... same]
May it be you shall always have the great quantity of joy like that which you have given to me [... same]

I am forever yours and wherever our paths may take us,
Tyetya? (tyenya?) nánye tennoio ar *ainomenna tiengwar ké tulyuva vé,
Yours for ever and to whatever place our paths may lead us,

my heart shall always reside in you.
endanya illumë maruva *ótyë/ *asityë?/ *asetyë?
my heart shall always dwell with you.

I love you.
Melin tyé.
I love you.
-------

constructions:
*eldávëa: "elvish" from elda + -vëa (as in _elvëa)
*lúmesta: lúme "time" and -sta as in VT49:40
*isintie: a theoretical perfect tense of ista- (ISI) based on _oantie_ (AWA)
*ainome: "wherever" from ai- as in _aiquen_ "if anybody, whoever" and _nóme_
*tyetya/tyenya: a theoretical 2nd person familiar independent possessive form based on _menya_, _ninya_, etc. cf. Thorsten's Quenya Pronominal article. This is the one I'm most troubled by and need opinions on.
*ótye: fairly straightforward ó-tye, but *asetye and *asitye are attempts at forming an emphatic form for the 2nd familiar "you" — the sundóma is I in VT49:50, but would that make *itye or *etye?

I chose to use the stressed form _tyé_ in accordance with _melin sé_ (VT49:15), and the familiar rather than formal "you" because of VT49:51 where it is said that it was used as an endearment "esp. between lovers)."

The translation of "angel" was tough; I decided to use máya "beautiful one" which also has a connection with divinity in Tolkien's legendarium.

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Do Feb 14 2008 14:06

[mí *lúmesta yassë *isintiengwë wet (or h[y]é)?]
I would formulate that as lúmestasse ya inwe isintiengwe. I think that 'us, each other' demands a reflexive pronoun here, but there is no distinguishing between 1st dual and plural in VT47:37.
samutyë
samuvatye?
*tyetya/tyenya: a theoretical 2nd person familiar independent possessive form based on _menya_, _ninya_, etc. cf. Thorsten's Quenya Pronominal article. This is the one I'm most troubled by and need opinions on.
In the specific case of tye it clashes with tyenya 'my tye, dear kinsman' (VT49:51). Maybe *etya/*itya?
tiengwar ké tulyuva
If there are many paths - tiengwar ké tulyuvar?
endanya illumë maruva *ótyë/ *asityë?/ *asetyë?
Or maybe just `´oki, *óke based on óle (VT43:29).
the sundóma is I in VT49:50, but would that make *itye or *etye?
I'd say *iki-e > *itye, but there is also KE- (VT48:25), so *etye seems possible, too.

Tyrhael
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Beitrag von Tyrhael » Do Feb 14 2008 17:18

Many thanks, Aran! I have edited in your suggestions (samutye was indeed a simple typo) — I always have trouble when using the locative with ya *g*. With tyenya, I knew it clashed and was indeed aware of that reference — for a moment I considered making a construction *tyenyatya "your tyenya," but I don't think that's really feasible. :?

That changes it all to:

Vanima máyanyan (maianyan) eldávëa,

Nai illumë nauvatyë alassëa ve anáyen (anaien) [mí lúmestassë ya isintiengwë inwë]
(or Nai illumë samuvatyë quant' alassëo ve antanietyen ["])

*Itya nánye tennoio ar *ainomenna tiengwar ké tulyuvar vé,
endanya illumë maruva *óki
Melin tyé.

Edit: Eep - I forgot that my first draft had *antanie for a perfect tense of anta- based on ortanie, but looking at Thorsten's Quenya Perf. Tense article yielded ánie off the archaic pa.t. Still, I wonder whether one from the newer one would appear too?

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Roman
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Beitrag von Roman » Do Feb 14 2008 21:36

[mí lúmestassë ya isintiengwë inwë]
The is superfluous now, I think.
(or Nai illumë samuvatyë quant' alassëo ve antanietyen ["])
Mhm.. 'you have full of joy'? I think it should rather be 'you are full of joy' or 'you have lots of joy' with the noun úve as before.
Also, we don't have an an indirect pronoun attested as affix, so inyen(na) antanietye/ánietye would be safer.
Edit: Eep - I forgot that my first draft had *antanie for a perfect tense of anta- based on ortanie, but looking at Thorsten's Quenya Perf. Tense article yielded ánie off the archaic pa.t. Still, I wonder whether one from the newer one would appear too?
Áne is marked with a dagger as archaic, but ánie isn't, so it would seem the usual perfect tense form.

Tyrhael
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Beitrag von Tyrhael » Do Feb 14 2008 23:09

The is superfluous now, I think.
Ah, okay.
Mhm.. 'you have full of joy'? I think it should rather be 'you are full of joy' or 'you have lots of joy' with the noun úve as before.
Also, we don't have an an indirect pronoun attested as affix, so inyen(na) antanietye/ánietye would be safer.
Yes, quant' was from my first draft, which was apparently what I copy-pasted into my previous post after making a few changes based on your post but ignoring the ones I had made before my first post. :?
As for "indirect pronoun attested as affix", are you saying that we can have (for example) -s in an accusative sense with utúvienyes and melinyes, but the dative (i.e. "you have given to me" sense can't/shouldn't be appended (or at least isn't attested as such) after a pronominal suffix as an object?
This error must have been due to my native language being English, where one can say both "you have given me" and "you have given to me", so I didn't recognize its dative sense. I can recognize why you suggest inye instead of ni, though.
Áne is marked with a dagger as archaic, but ánie isn't, so it would seem the usual perfect tense form.
Ah, okay. Thanks again!

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