Laer Beren a Lúthien - in entwicklung
Posted: Wed Feb 11 2009 16:30
EDIT
sorry - I made a mistake editing this post and accidentally deleted it. I had a local copy though ...
============================================
Hallo,
zuerst mein entschludigung für die Fehler in meinem Deutsch - ich kann es meistens verstehen und auch sprechen (allerdings mit ein schrecklichen Akzent) doch die Gramatik ist vermutlich sehr Unterhaltend
Weil ich auch in Canada gelebt habe ist mein English viel besser, so ich kann danach umschalten wenn es zu schmerzhaft werden soll!
Eine die Dinge die ich vor einen langen Zeit mich gewünscht have zu versuchen ist ein Sindarin-Übersetzung von das Lied von Beren and Lúthien versuchen su machen. Ich habe die Übersetzung von Maewen in hier gelesen und das war einen sehr guten Startpunkt.
Hier sind die zwei ersten Strophen - die erste habe ich mit Eryniel zuzweit gemacht.
Es ist jedoch in fortschritt - nichts definitiv ...
= = = = = = = =
The leaves were long, the grass was green,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To music of a pipe unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering.
- - - - - - - - - -
I nimwaloth i bain a pant
I laiss in end calen nadhras
Calad egennir nedh i lant
En geil mi dhúath thiliol
Tinúviel i lilthas ias
Na lind o simp dholen a brand
A vi finnil dîn glîn ennas
A vi chammad dîn miriol
= = = = = = = =
There Beren came from mountains cold.
And lost he wandered under leaves,
And where the Elven-river rolled
He walked alone and sorrowing.
He peered between the hemlock-leaves
And saw in wonder flowers of gold
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
And her hair like shadow following.
- - - - - - - - - -
Nu laiss Beren erui padas
Ab aegais ring dad túliel
Mas i elduin i sirias
Nûr a erui reniol
Min laiss en-gwaloth tíriel
Glinthant mellys ’lassui ennas
Na choll a rainc dîn derthiel
Sui dae finnil dîn aphadol
= = = = = = = =
Ein paar Erläuterungen über Wahlen die ich gemacht habe:
1sten Strofe
(switching to English now, otherwise it'll be too hard to express myself here)
- the construction _I nimwaloth i _ / _I laiss in_ are loosely taken from what we read in PE paragraph 20.4 - the _i_ as the relative pronoun 'that'. Maybe it is not justified to use it as we do here, since that feels more like 'they' -> 'the flowers they were fair'.
- used _nadhras_ 'pasture' because we felt that the available words for 'grass' were more referring to the long, stiff thin variety (like helm grass or what have you), not the sort that you usually associate with fresh and green.
- _Calad egennir_ is the passive by impersonal construction as found in PE 20.2.2 'a light was seen' / 'had been seen'
- _simp_ 'flute' / 'pipe' is a Quenian - Sindarin reconstruction that Eryniel asked about, and got help with, elsewhere on this forum. I recognise the element from _solosimpi_ (BoLT)
- _ a brand_ 'and noble / high / lofty' (referring to 'the music') is an addition to accomodate the meter / rhyme
- _glîn_ I felt this had the feeling about it - 'gleam, glint (usually of fine slender but bright shafts of light; particularly applied to light of eyes)' (from Hesperides dict.) that I see when thinking of this line: a subtle reflection of starlight, together with _miriol_ 'sparkling like a jewel'
- _míriol_ Hesperides gives _míriel_ as present active participle 'sparkling like a jewel. In the PE17 list, however we found _míria-_ 'to shine like a jewel, to sparkle like jewels' which we thought is an a-verb, which would give _míriol_ as p.a.p. (?)
2ten Strofe
- _aegais_ 'mountain peaks' - probably debatable - I tried to make the it feel like 'high'. But _eryd_ would also fit in.
- _Ab aegais ring dad túliel_ 'after having come down from cold mountain peaks'
- _elduin_ my goodness! This word was in Maewen's version - I absolutely love it. I just had to use it.
- _Mas_ 'where' Q reconstruction from PE 22.2.6
- _i elduin i_ see above ^^^
- _Nûr_ 'sad'
- _tíriel_ 'having peered' ([and then] he saw the flowers of gold)
- _Glinthant_ 'he glanced'
- _mellys_ 'golden flowers' as alternative from using <some> + _ malthen_ 'golden'
- _rainc_ 'arms' for 'sleeves'
- _derthiel_ of the 'flowers of gold', to 'have been on [endured, lasted]' her mantle & sleeves (and in her hair)
On to the next verses ...
sorry - I made a mistake editing this post and accidentally deleted it. I had a local copy though ...
============================================
Hallo,
zuerst mein entschludigung für die Fehler in meinem Deutsch - ich kann es meistens verstehen und auch sprechen (allerdings mit ein schrecklichen Akzent) doch die Gramatik ist vermutlich sehr Unterhaltend
Weil ich auch in Canada gelebt habe ist mein English viel besser, so ich kann danach umschalten wenn es zu schmerzhaft werden soll!
Eine die Dinge die ich vor einen langen Zeit mich gewünscht have zu versuchen ist ein Sindarin-Übersetzung von das Lied von Beren and Lúthien versuchen su machen. Ich habe die Übersetzung von Maewen in hier gelesen und das war einen sehr guten Startpunkt.
Hier sind die zwei ersten Strophen - die erste habe ich mit Eryniel zuzweit gemacht.
Es ist jedoch in fortschritt - nichts definitiv ...
= = = = = = = =
The leaves were long, the grass was green,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To music of a pipe unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering.
- - - - - - - - - -
I nimwaloth i bain a pant
I laiss in end calen nadhras
Calad egennir nedh i lant
En geil mi dhúath thiliol
Tinúviel i lilthas ias
Na lind o simp dholen a brand
A vi finnil dîn glîn ennas
A vi chammad dîn miriol
= = = = = = = =
There Beren came from mountains cold.
And lost he wandered under leaves,
And where the Elven-river rolled
He walked alone and sorrowing.
He peered between the hemlock-leaves
And saw in wonder flowers of gold
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
And her hair like shadow following.
- - - - - - - - - -
Nu laiss Beren erui padas
Ab aegais ring dad túliel
Mas i elduin i sirias
Nûr a erui reniol
Min laiss en-gwaloth tíriel
Glinthant mellys ’lassui ennas
Na choll a rainc dîn derthiel
Sui dae finnil dîn aphadol
= = = = = = = =
Ein paar Erläuterungen über Wahlen die ich gemacht habe:
1sten Strofe
(switching to English now, otherwise it'll be too hard to express myself here)
- the construction _I nimwaloth i _ / _I laiss in_ are loosely taken from what we read in PE paragraph 20.4 - the _i_ as the relative pronoun 'that'. Maybe it is not justified to use it as we do here, since that feels more like 'they' -> 'the flowers they were fair'.
- used _nadhras_ 'pasture' because we felt that the available words for 'grass' were more referring to the long, stiff thin variety (like helm grass or what have you), not the sort that you usually associate with fresh and green.
- _Calad egennir_ is the passive by impersonal construction as found in PE 20.2.2 'a light was seen' / 'had been seen'
- _simp_ 'flute' / 'pipe' is a Quenian - Sindarin reconstruction that Eryniel asked about, and got help with, elsewhere on this forum. I recognise the element from _solosimpi_ (BoLT)
- _ a brand_ 'and noble / high / lofty' (referring to 'the music') is an addition to accomodate the meter / rhyme
- _glîn_ I felt this had the feeling about it - 'gleam, glint (usually of fine slender but bright shafts of light; particularly applied to light of eyes)' (from Hesperides dict.) that I see when thinking of this line: a subtle reflection of starlight, together with _miriol_ 'sparkling like a jewel'
- _míriol_ Hesperides gives _míriel_ as present active participle 'sparkling like a jewel. In the PE17 list, however we found _míria-_ 'to shine like a jewel, to sparkle like jewels' which we thought is an a-verb, which would give _míriol_ as p.a.p. (?)
2ten Strofe
- _aegais_ 'mountain peaks' - probably debatable - I tried to make the it feel like 'high'. But _eryd_ would also fit in.
- _Ab aegais ring dad túliel_ 'after having come down from cold mountain peaks'
- _elduin_ my goodness! This word was in Maewen's version - I absolutely love it. I just had to use it.
- _Mas_ 'where' Q reconstruction from PE 22.2.6
- _i elduin i_ see above ^^^
- _Nûr_ 'sad'
- _tíriel_ 'having peered' ([and then] he saw the flowers of gold)
- _Glinthant_ 'he glanced'
- _mellys_ 'golden flowers' as alternative from using <some> + _ malthen_ 'golden'
- _rainc_ 'arms' for 'sleeves'
- _derthiel_ of the 'flowers of gold', to 'have been on [endured, lasted]' her mantle & sleeves (and in her hair)
On to the next verses ...